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Subject: SPACE Digest V9 #278

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 9 : Issue 278

Today's Topics:
            Re: NASA Prediction Bulletins
          Re: For the People of Planet Earth
         Re: First concert from space--update
     Fun with electromagnetic catapults: *IEEE Magnetics*
              Re: 1992 moon base
              Re: edwards base?
              Fletcher and Facts
            Re: Fletcher and Facts
            Re: NSS Hotline Update 2/24/89
          Re: Re: The never-ending argument
          Recovering sunken Mercury capsule
             manned vs. unmanned
               Re: the un/manned debate
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Feb 89 01:17:13 GMT
From: att!alberta!access!edm!real!f9.n342.z1.FIDONET.ORG![e-mail]  (Dan Charrois)
Subject: Re: NASA Prediction Bulletins

Hello there.  I have called your board a few times and have noticed these
NASA prediction bulletins up there.  I thank you greatly for making these
available to us via this network (to save the monumental costs of calling
long-distance all the time...)  However, I am stuck with a somewhat
non-standard computer (read not IBM-compatible).  Therefore, the software
which you have available on your BBS won't work with my system (a Coco)
and I'm at a loss on what to make of those bulletins.  It does appear
though as if it comes from a simple database of orbital elements for the
satellites...  I'm a programmer and thus could create my own version of
those programs which determine the positioning of these satellites.
However, as you no doubt realize, I need to know which numbers represent
what as given in the prediction bulletins.  Would you happen to know
which elements are fielded to what, or know where I could get ahold of
such information?  If I knew what the numbers represented, I could get
started in satellite observations... it has always appeared fascinating
to me...
  Thanks in advance........Dan



--
Dan Charrois - via FidoNet node 1:342/1
UUCP: ...!alberta!edm!real!9!Dan.Charrois
ARPA: [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 28 Feb 89 20:52:15 GMT
From: att!cbnews![e-mail]  (William B. Thacker)
Subject: Re: For the People of Planet Earth

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Friends of Earth) writes:
>

[foretelling floods, earthquakes, plagues of locusts, cats and dogs
living togethers,...]

>For your see, people of earth, your courageous planet is destined to
>become one of the most beautiful stars in the universe.

(in my best Sam Kinison voice)
Oh God !   The Earth is going to ignite in a fireball of
nuclear fusion !  Ohh ! OOOOOOHHHH!!

Guess I shouldn't invest in hydrogen futures, huh ?

Gee, I sure hope those space aliens can take a joke  !  8-)

>                        ASHTAR COMMAND

Do the aliens realize that they're named after two major byproducts
of cigarette smoking ?



------------------------------ valuable coupon -------------------------------
Bill Thacker                        att!cbnews!wbt
    "C" combines the power of assembly language with the
     flexibility of assembly language.
Disclaimer: Farg 'em if they can't take a joke !
------------------------------- clip and save --------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 28 Feb 89 06:11:18 GMT
From: yalevm![e-mail]
Subject: Re: First concert from space--update

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Henry Spencer) writes:

>                Predictably, the simplest and crudest one -- China's --
>is the low bidder for current launch contracts, the most experienced
>one -- the Soviet Union's -- is not far behind, and the newest and most
>factionalized one -- NASA and the US aerospace contractors -- is dead
>last.

Note that China's launch price is "artificially low" - they're setting
them below cost to attract customers.  The US, once again saving us from
low launch costs, negotiated a deal with them to raise the costs after a
few cheap ones.  But it'll still be thousands of $/lb below the US cost,
no doubt.

Greg Howard                     HOWGREJ@YALEVM

------------------------------

Date:     Wed,  1 Mar 89 18:56 CST
From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey <[e-mail]>
Subject:  Fun with electromagnetic catapults: *IEEE Magnetics*
Original_To:  SPACE

Run to the nearest engineering library, space cadets!  The January
1989 issue of *IEEE Transactions on Magnetics* is out. It contains
about 660 pages of pure reading pleasure from the Fourth Symposium on
Electromagnetic Launch Technology in Austin, Texas last year.  A
handful of the papers are directly relevant to space launch
applications (which, I suppose, means that the idea is moving into
the mainstream), and the rest are concerned mostly with the dirty
details of EM launchers.

Read about compulsators, ultracapacitors, homopolar generators,
electrothermal launchers, plasma armatures, explosive foil injection,
and ignitron tubes.  I don't know what all this stuff means, but
it has a certain musical quality when you read it aloud, a little
like a *Doctor Who* episode with no picture...

Of course, I am already working with an electromagnetic launcher
with a high rate of fire (average of 1E13 payloads per minute)
and fairly satisfactory muzzle velocity (3,720,000% of orbital
velocity).  But the payload mass is rather limited-- a real challenge
to the lightsat people.  And the air resistance is murder.

                      ______meson   Bill Higgins
                   _-~
     ____________-~______neutrino   Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
   -   -         ~-_
 /       \          ~----- proton   Bitnet: [e-mail]
 |       |
 \       /  NEW!  IMPROVED!         SPAN/Hepnet/Physnet: 43011::HIGGINS
   -   -    Now comes with Free
     ~  Nobel Prizewinner Inside!   Internet: [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Wed,  1 Mar 89 12:31:19 PDT
From: Peter Scott <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: 1992 moon base
X-Vms-Mail-To: EXOS%"[e-mail]"

mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo![e-mail]
(Henry Spencer) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
>(Keith P. Mancus) writes:
>>>... 2.7 tons were reserved for a modified Apollo
>>>capsule  for emergency return.
>>>
>>    That's some modification...the CSM weighed 55,000 lbs...

>Sounds like they were planning to use just the CM, not a full CSM, although
>they'd have had to goose the life support up a bit.

>>... you have to bring more people back now, which should account for
>>most of it...

>A stock Apollo CM could hold five people with minor modifications; such
>a configuration was planned in detail for the Skylab rescue plan (which
>was never used, since none of the Skylab crews needed rescuing).  This
>by itself wouldn't add much.

The CM carried only enough fuel for a retro burn to deorbit, as I recall.
What were they planning to use to get off the lunar surface?

Peter Scott ([e-mail])

------------------------------

Date: 1 Mar 89 03:40:30 GMT
From: mailrus!uflorida!ufqtp![e-mail]  (Walter Lauderda)
Subject: Re: edwards base?

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (nicholas c. hester) writes:
>is the base that the airforce built for the launching of shuttles closed perma-
>nently or is it used for unmanned rockets? also, is there any chance of it bein
>g used for shuttles? i'm sorry that i don't remember the name of the base.
>
>=Nick Hester=
>[e-mail]

     The base to which you are referring to is Vandenberg AFB, CA.  It is the   site of the Western Space and Missile Range and is used to conduct a number of  ICBM test flights and unmanned launches (satellites, etc...).  An old launch padwas refurbished to provide the platform for shuttle launches, but this pad has
been mothballed.  Vandenberg was selected because launches to the south would
only be over ocean and would allow for insertion into polar orbits.  The payloadcapacity of the shuttle would have been less because of launches in a direction other than east.  To the best of my knowledge, there are no plans to launch any shuttles from Vandenberg now.  Edwards AFB, CA is the primary landing site for  all current shuttle missions (LOTS of room to land).  Hope this is what you
wanted.


                Walter Lauderdale


"My thoughts are my own; no one else's.  If they weren't, they wouldn't be mine"

------------------------------

Date: 1 Mar 89 08:30:52 GMT
From: cfa!cfa250![e-mail]  (Steve Willner P-316 x57123)
Subject: Fletcher and Facts


In his speech to the Explorers' Club, NASA Administrator James
Fletcher said:

>   About a third of our total effort is focused on keeping the Space
> Shuttle program moving usefully forward, and half again as much
> goes to the science and applications experiments that are steadily
> expanding the sphere of human knowledge.

If "effort" translates as "budget", this should mean that half of
NASA's budget is spent on science and applications.  I was sure this
was wrong but didn't have the references handy.  Then in his
newsletter "What's New" (posted in sci.physics), Robert L. Park
wrote:

> 4. NASA HAS BEEN SHORTCHANGING SPACE SCIENCE ACCORDING TO BILL
> NELSON (D-FL), chair of the House Subcommittee on Science, Space
> and Technology.  At Thursday's hearing on the FY 90 budget request,
> NASA Administrator James Fletcher was questioned about the impact
> of Space Station Freedom on other programs.  NASA made a commitment
> to Congress to apply 20% of the budget to space science.  Nelson
> produced graphs showing it was only 18%; Fletcher thought that was
> close.

Neither 18% nor 20% is at all close to 50%, so I wonder what Fletcher
could have been talking about.
--
Steve Willner            Phone [phone]         Bitnet:   willner@cfa
60 Garden St.            FTS:      830-7123           UUCP:   willner@cfa
Cambridge, MA 02138 USA                 Internet: [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 1 Mar 89 23:41:45 GMT
From: b.gp.cs.cmu.edu![e-mail]  (Ralf Brown)
Subject: Re: Fletcher and Facts

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steve Willner P-316 x57123) writes:
}In his speech to the Explorers' Club, NASA Administrator James
}Fletcher said:
}>   About a third of our total effort is focused on keeping the Space
}> Shuttle program moving usefully forward, and half again as much
}> goes to the science and applications experiments that are steadily
}> expanding the sphere of human knowledge.
}
}If "effort" translates as "budget", this should mean that half of
}NASA's budget is spent on science and applications.
}
}> to Congress to apply 20% of the budget to space science.  Nelson
}> produced graphs showing it was only 18%; Fletcher thought that was
}> close.
}
}Neither 18% nor 20% is at all close to 50%, so I wonder what Fletcher
}could have been talking about.

I bet he was referring to "budget remaining after administrative overhead",
in which case 12% of the total budget goes to the shuttle, 18% to science, 6%
to other real work, and 64% to the beaurocrats....

--
{harvard,uunet,ucbvax}!b.gp.cs.cmu.edu!ralf -=-=- AT&T: [phone] (school)
ARPA: [e-mail] |"Tolerance means excusing the mistakes others make.
FIDO: Ralf Brown at 129/31 | Tact means not noticing them." --Arthur Schnitzler
BITnet: RALF%B.GP.CS.CMU.EDU@CMUCCVMA -=-=- DISCLAIMER? I claimed something?
--

------------------------------

Date: 1 Mar 89 16:44:00 GMT
From: m.cs.uiuc.edu![e-mail]
Subject: Re: NSS Hotline Update 2/24/89


/* Written  8:26 pm  Feb 26, 1989 by [e-mail] in m.cs.uiuc.edu:sci.space */
/* ---------- "NSS Hotline Update 2/24/89" ---------- */

Its been rumored that Henry Cooper will be named by President
Bush to Head the National Space Council.
/* End of text from m.cs.uiuc.edu:sci.space */

Is that the same Henry Cooper who writes `Letter from the Space
Center' for _The New Yorker_, and who wrote _A House in Space_ and
_Before Liftoff_?

------------------------------

Date: 28 Feb 89 18:45:13 GMT
From: hpfcdc!hpfclm!hpfcdj![e-mail]  (Bob Myers)
Subject: Re: Re: The never-ending argument

>Wrong.  That is not my premise.  My premise is that manned space
>flight will not be developed until we develop manned spaceflight.
>This is obvious to the point of being a tautology.  Sending out

Gee, Mike....that IS a tautology!



Bob Myers            | "Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but
{the known universe} |  most of the time he will pick himself up and continue."
!hplabs!hpfcla!myers |                        - Winston Churchill

------------------------------

Date:     Wed,  1 Mar 89 18:13 CST
From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey <[e-mail]>
Subject:  Recovering sunken Mercury capsule
Original_To:  SPACE

This popped up in the February 1989 issue of *Sea Technology* (Volume
30, No. 1, page 9), an ocean engineering trade magazine. Headline
is "Texas Group Gets Go-Ahead to Salvage *Liberty Bell 7* Capsule."

Gus Grissom's Mercury capsule sank, as everybody knows, in 5000 meters
of ocean on 21 July 1961. NASA has now sanctioned an attempt by
Subsurface Technologies (Subtek), of Fort Worth, to recover it.  They
have a new widget called EMS-3, vaguely described as combining several
metal detection and electronics technologies, which "scans the sea
bottom to locate targets but also can 'see' several thousand feet
[!--WSH] below the ocean floor."

I guess if you had a new sensor technology and you needed investors,
it would make sense to grab publicity by going after some fairly
famous underwater target.  The *Titanic* is taken, and the Loch Ness
Monster is too slippery.  *Liberty Bell 7* seems like a good choice.
I sure wonder how this thing works. Well, if I get *really* curious, I
can always phone Fort Worth.

                      ______meson   Bill Higgins
                   _-~
     ____________-~______neutrino   Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
   -   -         ~-_
 /       \          ~----- proton   Bitnet: [e-mail]
 |       |
 \       /  NEW!  IMPROVED!         SPAN/Hepnet/Physnet: 43011::HIGGINS
   -   -    Now comes with Free
     ~  Nobel Prizewinner Inside!   Internet: [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Mar 89 10:13:20 EST
From: [e-mail] (J. Rachiele)
Subject: manned vs. unmanned


It is clear to me that what is needed is a balance between manned, unmanned,
and r&d activities to further Earth's space expansion.  Yes, Paul, we do
need the manned experience in space, and yes, it is expensive this year.
But if it is true that no plans are currently being pursued for the rail
gun launch system, or laser or ram launch systems, this is clearly an
almost (almost?) criminal lack on the part of NASA and the Soviet space
agency.  I also agree that unmanned exploration of the solar system is
needed.
  Of course, the bulk of the money will need to be spent on manned missions,
since unmanned missions and launch system prototypes just don't cost as
much.  But I'm sure no one on this net questions that the seed money for
the R&D leg of the tripod is perhaps the most necessary.

           Jim
           [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 1 Mar 89 23:07:38 GMT
From: concertina![e-mail]  (Steve Hix)
Subject: Re: the un/manned debate

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>
> If instead of doing technology research, NACA had been the central
> agency controlling all aircraft development and use, we would still be
> discussing the incredible technological feat of delivering 100 tons of
> payload across the Atlantic using a $1000000000 fleet of scaled up
> Wright Flyers and a series of tethered floating landing fields in the
> Atlantic...

No we wouldn't.

We'd be buying and flying European and/or Japanese aircraft.  They were
all involved with fighting a war a while back that drove such development.

Maybe we'll end up buying space services without having to bother with a
shooting war.

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V9 #278
*******************